Salvation & Inner Struggles: A Mother-Daughter Conversation

In this deeply personal episode of Encounters at the Well, I'm joined by my daughter, Alli, as she shares her journey through anxiety, depression, and faith. Together, we have an honest conversation about what it's like to walk through mental health struggles as a Christian, both from the perspective of the person struggling and the family members who love them.

Alli opens up about her experiences with anxiety and depression, the challenges she faced during college, her journey to faith, and the reality of continuing to manage her mental health through therapy and medication. We also talk about a difficult crisis season in 2023, the importance of having supportive people around you, and what helped her keep moving forward when life felt overwhelming.

If you've ever wondered whether struggling with anxiety or depression means you're failing God, this conversation is for you. We discuss common misconceptions about mental health and faith, the importance of seeking professional help, and why needing support doesn't make you weak. It makes you human.

My prayer is that this episode reminds you that you are not alone, your struggles do not define you, and there is hope even in the hardest seasons.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Alli's journey with anxiety, depression, and faith
• The impact of college and life transitions on mental health
• Why seeking therapy and taking medication is not a lack of faith
• Supporting a loved one through mental health challenges
• The importance of community and professional help
• Finding hope and strength in Christ during difficult seasons
• Breaking the stigma surrounding mental health in the Christian community

No matter where you are in your journey, we hope this conversation encourages you to reach out, seek support, and remember that God's presence is with you in every season.

Website:  www.hopeandhealinglifecoach.com

Email:  amydonathan@hopeandhealing.faith

Transcript

Amy Donathan: Hey friends, and welcome back to Encounters at the Well. I'm your host, Amy Jonathan, and I am so glad that you are here. But before we get started today, I want to give you a heads up about what we're going to be talking about. This episode covers depression, anxiety, and at some points, suicidal thoughts. My daughter Allie and I are going to be very honest, and I think honesty is going to help a lot of people. But I also want you to go into it knowing what's ahead. So you can decide right now if this is the time for you to listen. Because this is really hard, ⁓ really really personal things. And so if you are in a dark place right now, I want you to know two things. First, you're not alone. And this episode is for you to help bring maybe what you're feeling to light, to help you know that other people are dealing with the same thing and you aren't alone. And second, if you are in a crisis right now, please reach out to the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Just call or text 988. It's real people. Real help right now. Okay, let's go. This is our second episode of mental health and inner struggle and of the mental health and inner inner struggle series. ⁓ and before we go on, just like we talked about in the last episode, your mental health struggles do not cancel your identity in Christ. God doesn't love you less because you are struggling with mental health. He can't love you less and he can't love you more. His love is overwhelming, powerful. It is always there. So your mental health struggles does not affect that. I know the lie that comes with it. I know that we tell ourselves or we hear from other people that if our faith were stronger, we wouldn't have anxiety. We wouldn't have depression. We we would be able to get over it. If you prayed more, if you read your Bible more, if you trusted God more, your anxiety would stop. The darkness would lift. And if it hasn't, then you tell yourself that there must be something wrong with you. And that is a lie. And today we're gonna name it and we're gonna dismantle it together. And as I said in the beginning, I have someone very, very special with me today. If you listened last season, you already know who she is. It's my daughter Allie. she joined me last season to talk about growing up with a mom who was a youth leader for a lot of her growing up time, probably from before she could, you know, her earliest memories to high school, I was her youth leader. And but she was not saved. And so we talked about in that episode before about how she came to faith in college, even growing up in a Christian household and having a mom as a youth leader. And so when we were talking about this episode, because not only is she my daughter, she is also my editor for my podcast. And so when we were talking about this series, she said Mom, I want to come on So she's back today and we are going to do something ⁓ that for me being her mom, I just think that it's just so brave of her to be able to come on and be able to talk about ⁓ what she went through and what her me as her mom had this kind of stand on the sidelines and even though I knew what was going on and I knew ⁓ that you know she could get help, but like there was not a lot that I could do. And so We're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about what her anxiety and depression look like even after being saved and ⁓ and what she's kinda doing now. So You know, like I said, I was her I am her mom and I am a therapist and I help women with anxiety and depression and that deal with hard things every single day. And I could not fix my own daughter. And to me, like that makes my heart hurt because I know the things and but I wasn't in the position to help her that way. I had tools, I had faith, I prayed, but I could not make this go away for But that's not failure, that's not my faith failure. That is just the reality of mental health and how God brings you the right people and knowing Allie and knowing the therapist that she's talked to, how they have helped her where I couldn't. And I am very thankful for that. So sit back, grab a cup of coffee or a cup of tea, and ⁓ just listen to this story. So Allie, the last time that we talked, ⁓ we talked about you growing up in the church and I bet you don't remember a time that you didn't go to church.

Alli Sargent: No. No.

Amy Donathan: And I I think that you heard, you know, you heard the gospel and you saw me pray and I know you saw me journal and read my Bible. ⁓ but underneath all of that, there was performing and people pleasing and checking all the boxes, and then you knew that something else was going on. So when did you first realize that what you were feeling wasn't just teenage stress or normal hard days?

Alli Sargent: Yeah, I kind of pinpoint all of this starting about 10th grade. ⁓ it was much smaller compared to what it grew to be later on. ⁓ I remember I just was having a terrible day at school. little things were going wrong. I think my flute broke. ⁓ I I think I spilt. Like my lunch or something, something else terrible happened that day. And normally I could handle those things. Like I'd just come home and I'd be a little grumpy, but I would go about my day. And I just remember came home. ⁓ my bathroom has like an extended counter, and I just crawled up on top of the counter and cried. Which was terrifying for me because I didn't like crying. I still don't like crying. And so to be stuck in a it was I was crying. I was scared that I cried that I was crying and I just kept crying. And that lasted I think for like ten minutes until you came and you're like, what are you doing in the bathroom? I think you heard me crying and opened the door. And I just remember a little while later going like this isn't normal. I have never reacted to a bad day like this. Ever. So ⁓ I think that's when the anxiety started. depression came a little bit later, ⁓ 2017. Again, this this one ⁓ you kind of called it on the nose a little bit later that it was situational depression, but I had just ended a relationship. My first boyfriend, I ended it. Because things were not healthy. I had a terrible friend breakup. I lost all but two friends. ⁓ and that breakup taught me that people pleasing doesn't make strong friendship foundations. ⁓ so a lot was going on in my junior year, and I just went through a phase. I didn't talk to anybody at school. ⁓ I hyperfixated on my homework at least. Like I I would do my homework. But I'd mostly just yes, I'd mostly just talk to my teachers. I had one friend that I had one class with, and so he and I would talk, but we only had that one class and that was it. and then I'd come home and vanish. I would just sit in my room, I would put sweatpants on if I didn't wear them to school, and I'd come out for dinner and then immediately go back into the bedroom. And I just stayed in there.

Amy Donathan: You did.

Alli Sargent: And that was my life for four, five, six months, my junior year of high high school.

Amy Donathan: And I remember because you were so hyper focused on homework and your grades and that that's what you were doing is going in and doing your homework because you were very focused on making all A's.

Alli Sargent: So I think Yeah, I do remember again for the moms who have daughters who are going through this, the day the friend breakup happened, ⁓ my mom knew right away something was wrong. Probably she I think she heard me crying in the bathroom again. and she did one little thing to make sure that I didn't like come home and mope. she handed We had a play that I had was in play that night. She handed my one friend that came to watch twenty dollars and told him, Go take her out to dinner. Don't let her come home until after curfew. The one time my mom was for breaking rules. It was it was so that I would not come home and lock myself in my bedroom and cry into my pillow. She she knew I needed to do that later that weekend, but that day she was said, Nope. Go be with people. Go be with this one person who is still your friend and then come back and handle it. So

Amy Donathan: And for the moms out there listening that see their kids going through stuff, it just from a mom perspective, not a therapist perfect perspective, but a mom's perspective, it's so hard to know what is normal, even as a therapist, and I know the signs, but to know what is normal teenage stress and what is not. And so you just pray a lot and and you do the things that you think are right, even I kinda remember that night and I kinda remember maybe a little bit of pushback from you like you didn't want to go. And so, you know, as moms, we have to make like these hard decisions, but I knew that that you being with people, especially with that one friend, ⁓ because you had been friends with him for a long since we moved here. And so that that that would be what was best. And so, you know, make those decisions for your kids, even when they do push back a little bit.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: Because and this is from a therapist perspective, because sitting alone in your room, number one is Satan's biggest ploy to to get us to not be able to deal with these things is the isolation. And number two, it's not it's not mentally healthy because your mind spirals. So ⁓ that's just my mom and therapist perspective of that situation that happened. So so tell us about ⁓ when you started realizing that something bigger was going on. Like what did you do?

Alli Sargent: ⁓ First thing I did, I I I don't remember coming to you at all. I just remember having the conversation with you. I it was probably in the car. I think I said, Mom, I think I need to go to counseling. I think there is something this is like 2017. Mm. I started going to counseling either in late twenty eighteen or early twenty nineteen. But I remember coming to you and saying, Hey, I think I have depression. I wanna go see a counselor about this. And you said, yes, let's go. I will look like you I you were in the counseling world and so you looked some good ones up for me. And I think her name was Wendy. I went and started seeing Wendy every week. I would drive out and go ⁓ talk to her and just sort out and sort out what was going on because I was like, I hate the way I feel right now. This is terrible. I want to stay in my room like I was doing homework, I was watching Doctor Who, I was playing video games, but I still didn't feel great. It's like this is just I call it the wet blanket. Not that I'm being a wet blanket, but it feels like someone has just draped a wet cold weighted blanket over my entire body. Like physical and spiritual. I felt like that all the time and nothing was fixing it. And so I finally went. Please let me go to therapy and figure this out.

Amy Donathan: Yeah. And and at that time you weren't you weren't saved.

Alli Sargent: Nope.

Amy Donathan: ⁓ so all of the all of the spiritual things that you could do, you didn't you didn't believe they would help.

Alli Sargent: No. I had prayed before and it felt like I was just talking to myself. And I'm like, inside my head is the last place I want to be right now. So we're gonna try something else.

Amy Donathan: Yeah. And and that's okay, because that's where that's where you were. ⁓ so we got you through high school and I know, man, I I remember your junior year and that was such a tough year. and and I remember I think you and I went on just a girls' weekend to Lake of the Ozarks and we had a long talk.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: And I do remember one thing that you told me. And this is this is for the moms out there who like you see it and you want to help, but sometimes as moms, like we're too close. And so 'cause I remember like we're talking about it and your mom you s you're like, mom, you just don't understand. And I was like, But I'm a therapist. I do understand. And I do have I do have tools to help you. And but at that moment, at that time, I was not the person that could help you.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: And and that like to me like really hurt my heart. Not not that you did anything, but just that it I just wasn't the person that you wanted to listen to right then. You come around. ⁓ and we can talk about that later because I r I do remember one time having to walk in your room and and we did some of the tools. And it helped. So ⁓ but moms, just know that like sometimes you can't be that person.

Alli Sargent: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: And you find the trust of people that can be. and that doesn't make you a bad mom.

Alli Sargent: And I think a big part of it too, because I remember this conversation was normally men are the fixers. And if you tell them something, they're gonna give you a solution. But you in that situation, you had all the answers. And I was like, I don't want a therapist right now. I just want a mom who will listen to me and not and but I'm I don't not have a physical kid that I can talk to yet. I'm working on it. September he'll be here. He just won't talk back to me. ⁓ but I remember being like I I obviously I had to get into my like later twenties to realize this. I like, mom, it was against my mom's like programming to not give me help.

Amy Donathan: Yes. September. Yes. Yes, it was I saw you hurting and not that I wanted to fix you, I just wanted you two to have tools. And and you know, moms, we mess up. You will find this out. When he gets here, you will find this out that you will mess up. And and so you just go on. ⁓ but you ⁓ your senior year came around.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amy Donathan: We went and looked at colleges, one three hours south, one three hours north, and you decided one twelve hours east. So, ⁓ which is good. I mean I'm glad you went to my alma mater, you went to Liberty and ⁓ so tell us about Liberty. You you started there in twenty nineteen.

Alli Sargent: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I ooh, okay. Moving twelve hours away was really good for me. For two reasons. One, we live in one of the smallest towns we have ever lived in. So when I lost that group of friends, there was no one else to make friends with. That was that was it. I had been friends with those people, half of them

Amy Donathan: Yes. Right.

Alli Sargent: for seven years or not seven years. Six four four or five years. The other half for two years. And so that was it. Also

Amy Donathan: Mm-hmm.

Alli Sargent: I love I love my family so much. None of you guys were dealing with it. Like I didn't have anybody who was also like anxious and depressed at home. I love my dad to bits. He'd be like, well just get out of bed. Like I can't. I cannot. And so moving to Liberty and having people who got it was a breath. I was like, I'm not going crazy. There's not like there is something wrong, but like, you know. It's not a a discipline issue. I'm literally just fighting my own head. So coming to Liberty and having, even though they were all pe Jesus freaks, having those people who got it and understood, like that is again one of the greatest things. And I think I probably could have gotten that at the other colleges that we looked at, but no one would have been

Amy Donathan: Right.

Alli Sargent: dealing with it and be saved. Well, there might have been some people, but like liberty. It was I needed people who were saved dealing with it and not unsaved people because and we'll talk about this later. I I my anxiety was my identity for a little bit. Like I did not want the world to change. I wanted the world to change for my anxiety. I didn't want to have to like change my anxiety to fit better into the world.

Amy Donathan: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Alli Sargent: And unfortunately I see that a lot with unsaved people with anxiety and depression.

Amy Donathan: I do too. It's ⁓ when and when I talk about anxiety and depression, ⁓ it's like people say like, hi, I'm Amy Anxiety. Not not I'm Amy and I'm dealing with anxiety. But we don't do that with anything else. Like we don't do that with cancer. I don't say I am cancer. No, I have cancer. ⁓

Alli Sargent: Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Right. It's while was, you know, writing my answers down to these last night, I was thinking of the ⁓ Hello My Name Is by I cannot think of the artist's name. But in the verses, it's like Hello My Name is Fear and Anxiety and Depression. But actually, if you're saved, Hello My Name is Child of the One True King.

Amy Donathan: Right.

Alli Sargent: I've been saved, I've been changed, I've been set free. We'll get more into this later, but that doesn't mean the anxiety goes away, but you have a new identity now. And that's what it needs to be, and not, you know, I'm Allie Anxiety. How are you today? Like, don't do this thing because it will make me anxious.

Amy Donathan: Right. Right.

Alli Sargent: So

Amy Donathan: It it keeps you in a like a a cell of your own making that that the door is unlocked, you you can walk out of it but you don't because ⁓ in a weird, unhealthy way, it feels safer.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Right.

Amy Donathan: So okay, so what happened to you in September at Liberty?

Alli Sargent: Ugh, I finally started going to ⁓ Liberty's Wednesday night services called campus community. Campuscom. If you're a Liberty student, you know what that means. and I didn't want to go. I wanted to like stay in my room and play video games or watch movies on Wednesday nights. I didn't want to go to campus community, but I was really good friends with two girls on my hall. And they were like, Allie, why don't you come with us? And I was like, Fine, I'll try this out. I've done it before, I'll do it again. Like ⁓ and so I started going and I just remember there was one night that I've watched, I've rewatched this sermon three or four times, and I couldn't tell you what he said in that moment that spoke to me. ⁓ it only happened in the moment that it was happening. Like going back through, I'm like, I don't remember any of this. I don't this seems is this the same sermon? Like, ⁓ which is just the power of the Holy Spirit.

Amy Donathan: Ha ha ha. Absolutely.

Alli Sargent: I'd also had a professor who he was he was a divinity professor. I at liberty you have to take evangelism one on one, which I thought was the dumbest thing. I was like, Can I get out of this class? I don't wanna go share about this thing I don't believe in. ⁓ I had a professor though that like knew when I I think he read one of my papers and was like, Come see me in my office. It's like He's like, You're not saved, are you? And I'm like, Nope. I'm not. And so he had been speaking into my life. My friends had been speaking into my life. So I finally went to campus community. And I just in that moment I was like, there's nothing else. It wasn't there's no anxiety, there's no depression at the moment. I was like, there's nothing else. Like, I'm not getting fulfillment from anything else that's going on. I If this is as great as people make it out to be, then it's something I want to do. Because if if I don't, there's nothing else for me. And so I'm I said the prayer and like felt well I felt a little different. ⁓ But yeah, I just accepted Christ and was like, this is it. This is what I'm doing. And I walked into class with my divinity professor the next day and he looked me dead in the eyes and said, You got saved last night, didn't you? I didn't say a word to him. I hadn't said anything upon walking in. I just I was gonna go tell him. Like I was so excited to tell him. and he just goes, You got saved last night, didn't you? And like, What is this magic?

Amy Donathan: Ha ha ha Ha ha ha.

Alli Sargent: Didn't so how did you know? And I still to this day he was one of my favorite professors. ⁓ but it's I there's nothing like it's just a decision. So

Amy Donathan: Mm-hmm. It is. It it's realizing what Jesus did and how much he loves you and that he can give you something that you can't get in in the world.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: So yeah, I remember I was driving home from work and you called me. I remember where I was on the road when you called me and told me you were saved.

Alli Sargent: Yes. He said, I have to pull over, give me a second and ⁓ my salvation's gonna cause my mom to have a car accident. Like it was yeah.

Amy Donathan: Uh-huh. Yeah. I also remember you saying, Did you know that I wasn't saved? Yes. Yes, yes, I yes I did know. ⁓ But again, you know, just like with your mental health, like there was nothing I could do. I tried to be a good example. I, you know, took you to church and tried to do cool youth stuff when you were in the youth and

Alli Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Amy Donathan: But a but it wasn't me, it was God having to work in you. And you know, I can see God's handprint all over your time and liberty. So that was ⁓ pretty great. So let me guess, you got saved and your anxiety and depression went away.

Alli Sargent: ⁓ I wish. I wish that's how it worked. ⁓ but it doesn't. No, it doesn't. It it didn't go away and it I truthfully didn't really learn how to deal with the two of them for a l I'm still learning how to deal with salvation and anxiety and depression and everything else on my mental health big go card. Like I

Amy Donathan: No.

Alli Sargent: ⁓ I really like I would be I remember being so stressed about tests and ⁓ I remember changing my major and that was stressful. It was also a stressful time when I was doing it because COVID was going on and we were at Graham's. that last time, like it was a stressful like everything was stressful. I'm like, alright, it's not going away. ⁓ God, I I made the decision. I am following you. So what's going on? Why why am I still dealing with this? This is supposed to be a one-and-done. ⁓ yeah. Come on, I got eternal life. Why am I still dealing with this?

Amy Donathan: Like sanctification happens like that, like I think that's. Right. Yeah.

Alli Sargent: ⁓ it wasn't until I met my best friend in the whole world. This this girl, she's the matron of honor at my wedding. I am the official niece to her or the official aunt to her daughter. I love her so much. She also her name's Jade. I met her in college. She was my community group leader. ⁓ and so like after campus calm, you would go into community groups and you'd talk about the sermon, or if we were doing a Bible study, we'd do that. So she was my community group leader. ⁓ the first the first time I met her, because anxiety was still a little bit of my personality. Even, you know, a year after getting saved, I met her. I walked in, she was listening to Fallout Boy. It was instant friendship. ⁓ but I I said to her, I was like, Hey, you know, if you could, I'm on anxiety medication. Can you just like remind me to take it every night? And she's like, ⁓ my gosh, I'm on like I I get that. I was on those two. And but she said to me, you know, it's not an instant fix. Salvation is not trying to find the exact quote ⁓ that I had written down. It's not an instant fix and it never will be. ⁓ but now we have someone who is walking alongside it with us who can take the anxieties. We just have to give it to them. salvation saves your soul. But we're still in broken fallen bodies in a broken fallen world. If salvation was a one stop shop for anxiety, if we're gonna use the same thought process, then you shouldn't get cancer after you get saved. You shouldn't break your arm after you get saved. ⁓ you know, your your thyroid issue should have just vanished.

Amy Donathan: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Or you should just be able to pray it away. Like, I broke my arm, I'm going to pray and it's going to heal and I don't need to go to the doctor.

Alli Sargent: Right. ⁓ The prayed away mentality, and I know there's a question about this later on, is so toxic. I push back against it whenever I can. prayer is not toxic. That's not what I'm saying in the slightest. Prayer is so important. God knows what we need, but that we also like like you would have a relationship with your best friend, with your husband, with a anyone, you've got to talk to them.

Amy Donathan: No.

Alli Sargent: And that's prayer.

Amy Donathan: Yes. Yes. And and God could do anything. Like he he could. If you ask him to fix it, he can. But ⁓ I l I like the analogy story that you put about the boat and the rain.

Alli Sargent: But Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ ⁓ Okay. Yes. I love that story too. So to listeners, the question is about anxiety medication. Cause I was on it. ⁓ boy. I was on it. I was I am I am pro mental health medication. I really I still am to this day. I don't take any ⁓ because I'm pregnant and I don't just just don't want to mix anything up. ⁓ If you're not at a point where therapist tools can help regulate your mental health, anxiety medication, depression medication can help you get to that point. If you're good about it. The problem is prescribing it.

Amy Donathan: Right. And Yes.

Alli Sargent: I was prescribed. I was on Sertraline and Attorax. The Suraline I took every day to sort of like take my anxiety down, and then the Atarax was whenever I had a panic attack. Because I think I'm just thinking about this, I think I also had a mild panic attack disorder as well. I just chalked it all up to anxiety. right.

Amy Donathan: I mean, that's part of it.

Alli Sargent: ⁓ we had military doctors at the time and listeners, if you've ever heard the saying take an ibuprofen and walk it off, that is unfortunately how military doctors work. That's

Amy Donathan: ⁓ okay we can't lump everybody in there but ibuprofen is prescribed a a lot for a lot of things ⁓ so it's it's good to be able to go to a doc because they don't specialize so it's good to go to a doctor that specializes

Alli Sargent: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm. ⁓ Right. That's good to go to specialists, so definitely go to specialists if you can. So I they put me on the lowest dose of Sertaline and the lowest dose of Adorax. And it it shot my anxiety down, but then I was just depressed all the time. Then I was like, I was tired, I didn't want to do anything. So I'd go to them and I'd say, Hey, this look this works great. My anxiety is like not there anymore, but now I'm depressed and I don't want to do anything. And they're like, okay, so we're gonna up your dose of surrelling. And was like, okay, you're the doctor. I'll trust you on that. And so ⁓ they did. I went to the highest dosage of Certaline in less than a year. And it just made me feel worse. To the point that I just cold turkeyed it. I I said I feel terrible. I feel better when I'm not on it. And the Adoracs too, they had got had to get to a point where if I had a panic attack, I had to take I'd split the pill in half and take it or else I wouldn't I could not get out of bed at all. Like I remember being in college and I'd had a panic attack and I was like, I don't want to take the medication 'cause I know it's gonna put me out and I'm not gonna function and I have class and I have work. I can't my friend was like, You're not doing well, you really need to take it. I took half and she would come check in my room because I w I didn't get out of bed for forty eight hours. on half a pill. So cave That was awful. That was like some of the darkest, most depressed times I had in my college years. But they have come out now with DNA tests that you can get. I think one of them is called GeneSight. ⁓ that they t swab your cheek or I think they take a blood sample, one of the two, and it y they can look at your genetic makeup and figure out which antidepressants will work the best. I didn't have that when it came to my medication, so it was like throwing spaghetti at a wall and hoping something stuck.

Amy Donathan: And I think, you know, for this that you have to advocate for yourself a lot. Like, no, I don't feel good. No, this is not working. No, I'm not leaving the office until we figure out something else to do. Like like you have to do that. And and I think for you it was hard because you were an adult, but you were a very young adult.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yep. And I remember doing a little bit of that. They're like, well, the only other option we have is a beta blocker, I think is what they're called. and but you have to know when you're about to go into a triggering situation and take it before that. And I'm like, That's not how this works. I don't know what's gonna trigger me. I'm just anxious all the time. Like that's ⁓ this is what happens. And so

Amy Donathan: Right.

Alli Sargent: I did not have a lot of options. But that doesn't mean I'm anti, like, if you can get to a specialist, get to a specialist.

Amy Donathan: Right. And and what I have found just in therapy is that ⁓ 'cause I'm not against medication either. I'm not a prescriber, so I can't prescribe anybody medication, but sometimes in the depression and anxiety it's like you're in a hole and you're doing everything you can to to dig out of it and you're not and so y it's just like pointless and hopeless to try to do it. And what the medicine does, it brings you from in that hole like kind of It doesn't make everything go away, but it gets you to a place where ⁓ and this is the other the other part of of medication is like find a therapist because the medication and therapy will help because if you can get to that even playing field of, you know, not being down in that hole and not feeling like everything's great because, you know, that's what the pill did. The tools that your therapist can give you will feel like they're

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: they will work because you're not in that hole. It's not doesn't feel hopeless anymore. You can work and then you have all of these tools for if you don't have your medicine sometime because that happens. And so ⁓ so I love that, you know, I don't love that you had to go through that, but I do love that you have a good perspective on it. So what would you say to the woman who's terrified to try medication because she feels like that means that I don't have faith.

Alli Sargent: Right. Mm-hmm. Ugh, okay. I that's such a terrible thought to have and I know where it comes from. There's a there's a story that I have heard very much recently. definitely within this year have I heard it for the first time. And I think it applies to faith and medication very well. So there's a man, ⁓ a hurricane hits a town. And this man is standing out in his yard and the water's like up to his knees and someone comes by in a boat, in like a canoe and says, Hey, do you want to get on my canoe? I'll take you to shelter. And he says, No, thanks. God will provide. So then a little while later, he's up on his roof, and the water is slowly getting up to the roof, and someone comes by in a boat again. Hey, get in my boat. Like, I'll take you to shelter. No thanks, God will provide. A little while later, he is like treading water, he's tired, he's been at this for hours, and someone comes by and says, get in my boat. I'll take you to shelter. We'll get you out. He's like, no, thanks, God, we'll provide. And then the man drowns. And when he gets to heaven, he says, God, why didn't you help me? Like I I prayed you you you I thought you were going to provide and God said I sent three boats. Why didn't you get in one? And so medicine is not I think this is just the mental health look as well. If you break your arm, do you have less faith for going to get a cast? No. It's what you do. It's what we do to fix it. Mental health is the same way. If you don't have the tools, or if you're not in a spot where the tools will work, go get medication. Or I mean it doesn't have to be medication either. A lot of times with depression it can also be like vitamin D is amazing. You know, go get go get some different vitam go get some vitamins. Those can help too. ⁓ and your doctor may d prescribe those. ⁓

Amy Donathan: Or go outside in the sun. Go take a walk in nature.

Alli Sargent: Right, go outside in the sun, go take a walk. ⁓

Amy Donathan: There's there's lots of things that God has given us that help, but he also gave us doctors and he gave us medication, ⁓ people that made medication. And and it's it's surrendering all of that to him, saying, I'm scared, show me the right way, and then trusting that he will do that. ⁓ because he will bring you to the right people.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: And and that in itself is faith. Like just surrendering that, like I'm afraid to go on medication. I'm afraid to go to a therapist because I'm afraid that that means that I don't have faith in you and I do have faith in you. And and that in itself is faith, like because you're taking it to the one person that can do something.

Alli Sargent: Yep. Yeah, God will work through miracles. If you pray like I've heard stories where people pray for stuff and God like fixes it right away. That's not the only way he works though. And I think like even looking at Elijah, which I just love that story so much, God didn't just snap and his depression and anxiety was gone. No, he was like, eat a snack, take a nap.

Amy Donathan: Yep. Then we'll figure it out. Yeah, because ⁓ Elijah wanted to die. He's like, take me. And this was after after he just was part of like one of the biggest miracles and that showed God's sense of humor. you know, he was part of that. And then Jezebel said she wanted to kill him, and then he's like

Alli Sargent: And then go. And then go. Isn't it? Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: depressed and anxious and wants to wants to die and God's like, Here's a snack, take a nap, then we'll talk. So

Alli Sargent: Yeah. And that's like I think we it's very easy to like, ⁓ God is a god of miracles and when we think I mean which he is, and when we think miracles, we think these grand things, but like miracles are little things too. Like being told like, ⁓ actually like if it I speak to this because we're in a spot right now, like, ⁓ the medication's gonna not be like it's gonna be too much, let's just not do it. And then just being told like, ⁓ no, someone like paid it forward and paid for your med that's a miracle. It's not grand, you're not gonna see it on TV. The televangelists aren't gonna share it, but like that is a miracle. And so when it comes to prayer

Amy Donathan: Right.

Alli Sargent: Yes, pray about your anxiety and depression. Give it to God, but also use the things he gave you here in this world to help with those things.

Amy Donathan: And pray, ⁓ this is something I struggle with. Like I pray all the time to have open ears and eyes and heart and mind to see what he's doing because I really believe that he is always there waiting to do something. I just sometimes close myself off to hearing that because maybe it's something that I don't want to do. ⁓ and I think, you know, for listeners like maybe it is medication or maybe it is going to therapy and you know that you

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: hopefully after listening to this that it it is a good thing. ⁓ but you have this because they're still a stigma, not as bad as there used to be with medication and therapy, but that it cause it it will make you be less of a Christian. ⁓ and that's just that's that's not true. It is and as a therapist I don't see that in my therapy.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: ⁓ I feel like every person that comes across my screen or into my office is a divine appointment. Like God gave me skills to be a therapist and ⁓ brings people to me who I can who He can help through me. And so like that's a way to to see therapy and and medication too. Like it's just something it may not be something that you have to be on for a while, but just to get to that even place where you can do the work. ⁓ to whenever the anxiety comes and it will. It doesn't just even on medication and even having a great therapist that gives you really good tools, it doesn't mean that anxiety won't ever come back. It just means that you'll be able to handle it better.

Alli Sargent: Right.

Amy Donathan: So so in March of twenty twenty three, you had a crisis moment. So as much as you are comfortable sharing, ⁓ can you walk us through like what what this was like ⁓ from your side of dealing with it.

Alli Sargent: Yeah. ⁓ see 2023. So looking back now, which hindsight is 2020. But you know, again it was it was it was small things that just piled up. I was also under a lot of stress in twenty twenty three. I was supposed to graduate that May. I ended up graduating that August, but I still graduated. I was Taking Gen Ed classes and struggling with them. ⁓ and then I had a just an awful part-time job that did not treat me well and was not safe, but I had to pay my car bills, I had to pay my insurance bills, I had to pay for gas to get to school from my apartment, and so I needed the job and I was up late studying one night. for one of my classes and I slept through my work alarm the next morning. So I got to work and they're like, Yeah, you're fired. I remember the moment being like, ⁓ thank goodness. 'Cause I don't want to work here anymore. But then I left and I was like, Okay. That was four hundred dollars every two weeks or four yeah four hundred dollars every two weeks. That went to gas, my car. You guys were helping with groceries, so I didn't have worry about that. But my gas, my car, my insurance, and any emergency thing I may need. so I called a friend of mine in Lynchburg who didn't pick up because it was like seven in the morning. ⁓ so I called Jade, ⁓ who lives in North who lived in North Carolina and still lives there. So she wasn't local, but she was someone I could call. ⁓ And I called my boyfriend at the time too, but he had been up working the night before, and so he also wasn't awake. Jay picked up on third ring and I don't even remember crying. I just Remember telling her, Hey, I got fired. I'm driving home. And she was like, Are you safe? And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine, I'm just driving home. And I got home and we have a like a little carport thing. So I pulled in the carport. And I was just like I c I can't re even remember what exactly I said. I think I said something like, Man, it'd be so much easier if I didn't have to worry about all the money now. And she said, ⁓ are you danger to yourself or others right now? Which I knew she was meaning. She she meant, you know, am I gonna hurt my am I gonna hurt myself, try to kill myself, or am I gonna try and kill other people? And I said I can't tell you no right now. ⁓ and again, our God is so good because Jade knew what that feeling was and immediately called my mom. ⁓ because she knew you know there was nothing she could do at the moment. My mom might be able to talk to me a little bit. She made me call or I I think she made me call you and put it on conference call. So it was the three of us in my car on a phone call and I told you everything that was going on.

Amy Donathan: Mm-hmm.

Alli Sargent: All right. I just remember going like, you know, there are some beautiful mountains and there's no guardrails on those mountain hills. Dad wouldn't have to keep paying for the car. He wouldn't have to keep paying for college. My boyfriend can find someone else. Everyone will move on from this. About most of the phone call was done and I think I was, you know ⁓ I think I was a little I was backing away from the ledge when the first friend I called called me and I think I put her on the phone call or something. We told her what was going on and she ⁓ my gosh she moved her whole schedule around. And she was doing huge things that day. She went to go pick up their first foster child that day. I went with her. Because she did not want me to be alone that day. And I did like being we talked about people pleasing last time. With people pleasing. If people have to change a bunch of stuff, you feel like armor burden. You know ⁓ they had to do all these different things just for me. I must be such a burden to them. I didn't feel that. I felt so loved. Even when dad texts me, my dad is not an emotional person. I love him so much. He's not emotional. I think I got one of the most emotional texts from him that morning. Of like, you are more to me than just the money you owe me. You know, we still want you around. It wasn't super emotional, but it was for him because he's not ⁓ he's not an emotional man. He's cried like four times in my life. ⁓ and one, it was for a dog, like he was a special dog. We loved that dog.

Amy Donathan: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He was a special dog.

Alli Sargent: But like dad didn't cry and so to get a text from dad of like, you know, how important I am to him, I just felt like okay. I need to stay around. Need to keep going. I want to keep living. Actually. I just don't want to deal with all the stress that's going on right now. And I think Dad was like, you know, don't worry about your car. Cause the the blessing was that I bought my car from you guys. And so I didn't like, you know, if I missed a payment, the bank wasn't gonna repo it. I j And so

Amy Donathan: Yes.

Alli Sargent: That was a huge blessing. It was the dad was like, you know what, don't worry about the payments. Focus on graduating, focus on your internship, and then when you get a job after college, we'll start the payments back up again.

Amy Donathan: And I think And I think I you didn't put it in here, but if I remember correctly, you had also flunked a class that you needed to graduate. Because I remember

Alli Sargent: Yes. I was I was failing all of

Amy Donathan: I remember having that conversation of you've liked a class, you got fired, and just telling you like it's figure outable. Like what do we need to do? Not to be a fixer, but just to give you like some ⁓ forward thinking.

Alli Sargent: Yeah.

Amy Donathan: Like this is not the end. It's it's it's figure outable. And so, okay, let's make a plan to to move forward so you don't stay stuck in that spot. I d I r I remember where I was when we had that conversation too. I think I was in a hotel room. So

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. You guys yeah, you guys are in Texas. Which is even further away than you would have been if you were in Illinois.

Amy Donathan: Yeah, so ⁓ yeah that was and I and I think I know where you were, but I and and maybe you disagree with me, but I think a lot of times we take stuff like that and we think suicide when really we just want right what is going on right then to be over. Not not you know, if we have summer plans, we we still want to do those, but we want what's going on right now to be over.

Alli Sargent: Yes. Mm. Yeah, and I think that's I don't want to speak too far into it. I think that's a big thing of suicide is what's going on right now, death has to be better than it. 'Cause it'll be done and we won't have to deal with it anymore. But that's not all that life is.

Amy Donathan: Yeah. No. And

Alli Sargent: Looking back, like being where I am, being being married, having a kid on the way, like I'm so glad I didn't do anything. I'm so glad.

Amy Donathan: Yeah. And nothing ever lasts. Like no bad time that you're in ever lasts. It may feel like in the middle of it may feel like it's never ending. And no good time ever lasts. It's it's more it's like a roller coaster up and down and ⁓ and so it's just knowing that

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: It because I mean I have days where I'm like, I would much rather be on a beach in a hammock with a drink with an umbrella than than be here. Like I don't want to do this. I don't want to be here. I don't want to deal with this. But coming out to see you when you have my grandbaby is something that I have planned to come do. So and I want to do that. So it's just

Alli Sargent: Hehehe Uh-huh. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: You know, and for listeners, just to if you were in this spot, number one, call call the nine eight nine eight eight crisis line and and suicide hotline, call them. And then also think about the things that you want to do that you don't want to miss. And know that like what you are in right now is not all of your life, like what Ali said is not your all all of your life. It is a moment in your life. that will be gone because every bad thing that has ever happened, if you are listening right now, you have lived through it and you have made it through it. And so just just remember that as you, you know, as we ⁓ go on with with this podcast. Remember that that this is not this is not your life. It may be bad right now, but it won't be bad forever. So this is, you know, this is hard. This is hard for me to hear you. ⁓ even though I knew that's where you were and, you know, walked through it with you from afar.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: But that wasn't your only dark season. like you've had other ones. Maybe not as bad as that. So now that you have hindsight of what that was and how you dealt with it, ⁓ what does it look like today when those times come on you?

Alli Sargent: a lot of I I've I've noticed that it happens a lot more frequently when I'm alone. 'Cause there's no one to talk to so Satan's the loudest. Especially you know, in the past. Gosh, almost a year. It'll be a year this this coming week where I've not been teaching. And my husband works, you know, eight to five, ten to six on Saturdays sometimes and I'm just in the house by myself. And it's a lot of laying around. I'll sleep until Jacob gets home for lunch at eleven forty-five. Or ⁓ I will get up and eat, or I'll just go lay on the couch and like doom scroll until he gets o home in the evening. And we know that it's more than my husband and I have sort of realized that if I don't perk up when he gets home. then it's more than just a being alone thing. Like I'm, you know, depressed. ⁓ but I'll have days where I'll look at him when he's home or I'll tell him in the morning I'm like, you know, there's a pack of needles sitting on because I sew and I crochet. And I'm like, you know, there's a there's a box of needles on my desk. And I feel like there's so much pain inside that I want to feel it outside. And I'm gonna cut myself the needles. And he'll take the needles. He'll take them. And if he has to go back to work or if he's home, we go out of the bedroom where the desk is where the needles are. And we'll go sit on the couch. Or we'll make dinner together. and then he'll just pray over me. ⁓ but it's a lot of just like wanting to feel pain because I feel like I feel it inside. And I don't even know what's causing it. Like there's it could be nothing going on. ⁓ that is something too that I I wanted to touch on just a little like it there could be nothing going on. Women have hormones. And and there can be times and I've talked

Amy Donathan: Yes.

Alli Sargent: talked to some women about this where you know right before that dreaded week of the year or week of the month we feel this way and it's we could be having the best time like it could be a great time in our lives but chemically our brain is just not functioning right because of our hormone cycles. So there's a little bit of that. ⁓ but also just, you know, two years ago in 2024, my therapist diagnosed me with depressive dystymia, which is not a major it's not major depressive disorder. It's kind of like the wet blanket I was talking about earlier. But it's always on. And when the anxiety goes away, there's nothing left except for the wet blanket. And so For a a lot of the time it's just I'm not stressed. I'm just depressed. So and it's not like I wouldn't even say I'm sad. I feel like a lot of people say, ⁓ you're just sad. No? I just feel like half a person. Like a a shell. So

Amy Donathan: Mm. Hosea 2, 14 to 16 is a verse that that ⁓ you wrote in your questions that that is one that you kind of hold on to. So so tell us what the passage is and what it means specifically to you in the context of your depression and anxiety.

Alli Sargent: So Hosea two fourteen, for those that don't know, whoops, it's the wrong verse. is oops. It is the it is God talking about it's God. Someone's argued that it's Hosea talking about the the ⁓ harlot that he's to marry. And it says, Therefore, behold, I will allure her, bring her into the wilderness, and speak kindly to her heart. Then I will give her her vineyards from there, and the valley of Achor as a door of hope, and she will sing there as in the days of her youth, as in the days of when she came up from the land of Egypt. It will come in that day, declares the Lord, that you will call me Eshe, which means my husband, And you will no longer call me Bali, which means my master. So in the context, he's talking about redeeming Israel and what he's going to do to Israel, bring them up out of their and honestly to all of us, because later on we learn it's not just the Israelites that are gonna get this blessing, it's the Gentiles, it's everyone who accepts Christ. ⁓ but I struggle a lot with an all knowing, all all powerful God that when I am depressed will not come sit on my couch with me and and talk to me and and be my person. That is a huge struggle for me. And so I was reading in Hosea ⁓ and I read came across this verse and I was like, you know what? This is the most personal verse I think I have come across. ⁓ because we have, you know my mom's favorite Psalms three, five and six. ⁓ Proverbs, sorry. Proverbs three, five and six. ⁓ look we've both been crying today. ⁓

Amy Donathan: Herbs. Ha ha

Alli Sargent: Which is good but I this one spoke to me as if you know like a like like the bridegroom that we are supposed to be to God. And so speaking to her, speaking to her heart, which it depends on what translation you have, whether or not I'll say it. Mine's the N A S B. Mine says he will speak to her heart. ⁓ the Valley of Acor is ⁓ is you know land and it's only through trouble would Israel have hope of restoration. So I know I'm gonna struggle. ⁓ he'll bring me into the wilderness, which God sent man after the fall into the wilderness. He did. We messed up. There were consequences for our actions. ⁓ but he didn't just leave them there. And so this verse also shows that like he'll Bring us and he will lead us in there and speak kindly to our hearts, and we will feel restoration as if we were children again. The verse she will sing as she did when she was in her youth, as in the days when she came up from the land of Egypt. The Israelites were rejoicing when they left Egypt. They were in some of the hardest slavery their people had ever been in for years. And so God led them out and they rejoiced. And so He wants to bring us back to that point. And this verse was so personable, like ⁓ for the married women out there. When I got married, there was a moment where it's just me and my husband, we just left. ⁓ we did go outside for a little bit for some pictures, but there was this little spare room, and we just sat and enjoyed the peace of being married. We took a nap, but You know, we enjoyed the peace of being married and it was quiet and we were restful and we were just so filled with joy that we were finally married. We were man and wife. And that is what God wants for us too. And then even further along, she will call me Ishii, which Ishii translates to my husband, and she will no longer call me Bali, which translates to my master or my lord. And it's really easy to see God as the you know, the one with the hammer. standing over or like distant from us. but this verse just pushes back against all of that. We see how personable God desires to be with us, so much so that He will pull us away and be with us in the times of trouble. And so I just try to remember that when again, it's not, you know, it's not easy when things are hard to remember this verse. but that is the relationship that God wants with us.

Amy Donathan: 'Cause we're not promised once we're saved that everything's gonna be great. And

Alli Sargent: No, no. And anyone who says that we are, no, I'm sorry. It's just not we don't see that in the Bible anywhere. In fact, the people who are the most prosperous, once they found salvation, were poor. Poorer than dirt. Like they had to get meals from other that's what all the disciples did. They went and got meals from other people and relied on the generosity of others. think I talked about this later on. Paul

Amy Donathan: Yeah. No.

Alli Sargent: Who was Saul first, and he was a rich Jewish man who was prosecuting other Christians, came to God after being blinded, but you know, came to God and then he became a tent maker and traveled and was put in prison. And would s like he would still rejoice, but he wasn't in prison when he was a rich Jewish man. So

Amy Donathan: No. And and everybody, everybody that you read about in the Bible, David, who is a man after God's own heart, had problems and still made bad decisions, even knowing God the way He did. And so it's it's knowing this that we are not going to be perfect, we are not going to make the best decisions. And sometimes bad decisions are made against us, to where it's not anything that we did.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: But it's seeing that, you know, God walks through all of that with us. And I think one of the things that helps me the most when when I'm in a hard spot is that He doesn't waste anything. So He doesn't give us hard things, whether it's anxiety and depression or you know, trouble with family members or your husband or wife or kids or job, like None of that is wasted. Everything God uses to for our good and his glory. And ⁓ it's it's just knowing that in the midst of things, like okay, and I think it changes your perspective on hard times, like what instead of like poor me, poor me, to where your anxiety and your depression is like part of who you are, it's like okay, this is what I'm dealing with right now. How are you gonna use it? What are you doing in me? Because God will always, He's always doing something in us.

Alli Sargent: Exactly. Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: through whatever it is that we're going through. But us being stubborn people, we forget to look to him when things are good a lot and rely on him. Because things are good. So but when things are bad, that's when we turn. ⁓ so it's, you know, it's it's learning learning those things in the midst of all this that just because you have anxiety and depression

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I we need yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amy Donathan: doesn't mean that, you know, God is disappointed in you. It's just what you're dealing with right then.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. It's just yeah, it's just a, you know. I growing up, we always tried to have like a we're the mindset of if we don't laugh at something sad, we're gonna cry about it. For the most part, we do we do cry at sad things, but you know, if something happens, you we have to laugh at it. And so like I've gotten to the point where I'm like, you know what, my anxiety and depression, it just it's my spice. You know, it's a little bit of flavoring in life.

Amy Donathan: Yeah.

Alli Sargent: It'd be too easy if I didn't have it You know. but it doesn't you know it doesn't stop me from doing things. It it makes it difficult but then I have to rely on God to do it instead of relying on myself to do it.

Amy Donathan: Mm-hmm. Do you think Do you think that now that you have a different perspective of your anxiety and your depression, that it's not your identity, it is something that you deal with, like it makes it easier to deal with because now it is not a part of you. It's like on the outside of you something that you're dealing with, even though I know it's all in your brain, but it's ⁓ like you're like, I I can deal with this. Like this is not gonna because just from things that you've said about, you know, you you haven't stopped living life because you have anxiety. ⁓ that 'Cause I feel like before when you were struggling with it when you were younger, like when you lived at home and in the first part of your college career, ⁓ that you you were of the mindset of and I'm not you know please tell me if I'm wrong about this, but this was just my perspective that you didn't like anxiety was so big. that you wouldn't do things. You let it control how you did life.

Alli Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely and it was so much easier to do that too, because we're definitely more in it now than we were when I was first diagnosed, but we're in a culture of hide behind your anxieties and depression. ⁓ and now like there's still things like gosh, phone calls are the worst. I yeah, you know, my husband and I have been trying to apply for Medicaid and

Amy Donathan: Yeah, I don't like phone calls either.

Alli Sargent: You know. Luckily my husband, you know, gets that i it it I I get locked down sometimes when it comes to phone calls. Like, you know. ⁓ but you know, I gotta make ⁓ I'm applying to jobs. I gotta take the phone calls when they come. ⁓ it's like I can still live and do things. I don't want to do them all the time. ⁓ there are still things though, like driving. I stopped driving for almost a year. 'Cause I had my husband and he would do all the driving. And so getting back on the road was like stressful. ⁓ But it's definitely more of a I don't want to say suck it up and deal with it, because that's can also be a toxic mentality. ⁓ that we don't want people to get into because then you just bury things down. ⁓ but like there is a point where it's like, okay, I've done this before. I can do it again. It will be okay. ⁓ whereas, yeah, I I see I've I've I I've known some people that like I see my old self in them and how I handled my anxiety and depression.

Amy Donathan: Right.

Alli Sargent: wanna sh I wanted to like shake them be like no that's not how it works you are not a slave to those things especially if you were saved ⁓ and yeah.

Amy Donathan: Don't do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I think when you make it not and this is what this is how I teach children about their anxiety. Like we ⁓ we make an anxiety monster and make them draw what their anxiety looks like or their depression looks like. ⁓ and then we talk about the more you feed it, the bigger that monster gets. Because then that takes it from inside them to outside of them. And they can see that they can do things even when it feels uncomfortable and they feel scared that they can still do things and it makes the monster smaller. Because once I think once you you you do that, once you overcome that fear of your anxiety and you do those things that are causing your anxiousness, that that anxiety it doesn't go away all the way. But you see that it's it's

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. No, but it's

Amy Donathan: You can you can figure it out and you can handle it.

Alli Sargent: Right. And that's what, ⁓ it's one of the therapies that I don't know if you use it, but I know other people do, it's exposure therapy. Sh you know you don't have to be a licensed therapist to do that. I you know, you should be, but sometimes like ⁓ like with driving. I did not want to drive again. I was so content with just having my husband drive me around and I was like, Alright, I gotta drive. Tutor my tutor a friend of mine after school ⁓ I gotta drive. And so I would just drive, ⁓ we have a little coffee shop just around the corner from my apartment. And so I would just drive and go get coffee and come back. Or I would drive to Walmart and come back. Or I would drive to our associate pastor's house and 'cause they live really close to us and come back. And so I just like expose myself to little little things. ⁓ And I was like, okay, I can do this. It's fine. It's I still get stressed when driving. Virginia drivers are terrifying. ⁓ Virginia roads are so different from the Midwestern roads that I practiced on to get my driver's license. ⁓ we do have less potholes, but ⁓ but I was like okay, I could do this. This is fine. I drove

Amy Donathan: That is true.

Alli Sargent: God, I got my car out here in 2021. So, like I drove for four years before I stopped driving. You know, I can get out and do it. And so it's just having that mentality, especially if it's something you've done before and you've stopped, like, okay, you've clearly done it before. You can do it again. It's gonna be terrifying. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that it's not gonna be terrifying. ⁓ but you've done it. And then just do a little bit. Do a little bit each day. If you're scared of phone calls? Make the phone call anyway. That's there's no exposure therapy to phone calls. I'm sorry. You just gotta make the phone call. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Well it and it that depends on it too, because like I could call you or Jade or Jacob any day of the week. I'd be fine. It talked for hours. But when I have to call like Virginia government or ⁓

Amy Donathan: Well, I think it depends on who you call. Like if you don't like phone calls, call a friend first. ⁓ and then Right.

Alli Sargent: you know, a place that's supposed to interview me. I mm I don't want to do it.

Amy Donathan: Yeah. But I think and

Alli Sargent: So but just make a little one. Like if someone left you a voicemail, call them back. Leave a voicemail.

Amy Donathan: Yes. Yes. And I think, ⁓ like Philippians two thirteen, for it is God who does at work in you both to will and to work for his good pleasure. To know that I I think a lot of times the anxious comes because we feel like we're doing we have to do all of this on our own. And so we just have to white knuckle it through and that's so hard because we don't want to. But to know that

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: that some of the things that we do, not some of the things, all the things that we do, that God is at work in us to help us. And He will give us words, like he just did Moses. And it's that going back to prayer, not to fix everything or make the phone call go away or the driving go away, but just saying, Okay, this is what I need to do. Show me that, you know, you're working with me in this. And then you do it. ⁓

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Yeah, of course.

Amy Donathan: So what are some of the things as we're gonna wrap up here in a minute? ⁓ what are some of the things that you that help you the most? We talked about Elijah's ⁓ nap and a snack and I know you, especially now being pregnant, that probably helps a lot.

Alli Sargent: I love naps. and snacks. ⁓ my gosh. Cheetos. Could eat Cheetos all day. But yeah. ⁓

Amy Donathan: And snacks. You like snacks? But what are some other things that, you know, for our listeners that are saying, okay, well, that's good and I'm gonna check into, you know, counseling or whatever, but but what can I do right now that that might help?

Alli Sargent: one thing, obviously this isn't for everyone. ⁓ I got a cat. So ⁓ one of the biggest hurdles I face when I'm feeling depressed is getting out of bed. That's like the first big thing. Is I don't want to get out of bed. ⁓ I have a cat. I actually have two cats. and Truly like they will I will hear something in the living room and I'm like, ⁓ no, they've gotten into something. They've broken something. And that kicks me out of bed right away. So then I'm up. I'm up and I suddenly feel so much better than I did just laying in bed. I just needed the push to get out. So thinking when I was thinking and writing this down, that was definitely one of them that I thought of. It was like, I have a cat that like we'll do something or like I okay, ⁓ orange and b yeah, I have I have an orange cat. I have a black cat too that thinks she's an orange cat. so like they'll get into something or like they'll they'll also I think animals are like hyper aware of our emotional states. So I was writing this last night and when I was getting to the the part of the intervention in 2023, I had both of them like sitting on my lap.

Amy Donathan: You have an orange cat.

Alli Sargent: One was up here, one was on my lap. And like they're j they'll just sit and like no judgment. Just sit with you. And just having that presence also helps. ⁓ but if you're not an animal person, which is fair, ⁓ I will try to put on worship music. ⁓ either, you know, just some chill stuff to put on in the to put on, or I've been listening a lot to ⁓ two thousands worship music. nineties to two thousand worships music, the worship music that like I grew up with that I remember having in the car radio all the time or we had all the CDs for ⁓ because you just I don't know. I just feel better listening to it. It's definitely a Holy Spirit thing you're worshiping God. But the music was so much more upbeat. ⁓ they were more poppy and I really enjoy that. And so that's been helping a lot. Taking a shower.

Amy Donathan: Yes.

Alli Sargent: This is one of the biggest things. I did a little bit of research and like when you're depressed, you do not want to take a shower. You just don't and I get it, because it's one more thing you have to do. I will just stand in the water. I won't even plan what clothes I'm gonna put on afterwards. I just stand in the water. And then I get out. I'll try to wash something. Like if I wash my body or I'll wash my hair. Cause it feels better to have one thing clean when I get out than to go in and just come out wet. ⁓ Make the shower as little as possible. Like it in in in our brains with like anxiety and depression, we have these things and they feel so huge. Try to make that shower as tiny as possible. Like all you need really is a towel to dry yourself off

Amy Donathan: So when you mean make it tiny, like not a lot of things, like don't wash your hair, shave your legs, exfoliate your face, just get wet, get out, get in a towel. Okay. Okay.

Alli Sargent: Wait. Right. ⁓ huh. Yeah, just mm-hmm mm hmm. ⁓ even if you just put the clothes back on that you were wearing when you got in, like you just need a towel and some water to stand under. That is that is it. And I always you you you will feel so much better. Or at least I always feel so much better after I've had a shower. And that's usually, you know, when I notice I'm like upset or if my husband notices it. He's like, When's the last time you showered? ⁓ so that's a big thing. Eat a snack. To go back to talking about Elijah, eat a snack. It doesn't have to be healthy. ⁓ fruit, candy, leftovers, just eat something. Eat something that tastes good, at least. Don't force yourself to eat food that you don't like just to eat something like eat something that you enjoy. and then take a nap. But when I go to take naps, especially depression naps. I will put on YouTube videos. They have like YouTube videos where they'll read Bible verses. ⁓ four different things. So like they have anxiety Bible verses, they have depression Bible verses, they have ⁓ law, like if you've just lost someone and you're grieving, like they have those Bible verses and they have nature sounds in the background, and they're like four hours long. And I will put one on and listen to his word and his creation, because I like the the beach sounds in the background. And so I I do that. And there those aren't big things. Cause when you're when you're in it, you don't want to do big things. It's the last thing you want to do.

Amy Donathan: So I know that you and Jacob are ⁓ part of a like a community group through church. ⁓ so how does that help?

Alli Sargent: Community is a huge asset to mental health, especially if your community also gets it. Maybe they don't deal with it, but they know someone who deals with it or ⁓ or they are dealing with it themselves. especially recently, like being pregnant, like I have a friend on call from our small group that I'm like, I feel this way, and she's like, That's normal. Normalist pregnancy hormones, or being able to like speak into other people's lives too. Like we have friends who are ⁓ dealing with the stress before a wedding. And you know, being able to use my experience from dealing with that anxiety, or even my friends, the other girls who have anxiety disorders, like being able to deal use my experience to help them better. Deal with it or understand that you know. Or know that someone understands where they're at is so helpful and vice versa. Like knowing that someone knows exactly where I'm at is so helpful. It's so good. And knowing that like they're actually gonna pray for me. or you know, if I need it, they'll just they'll like there's plenty of people who at the drop of the hat would just show up and be like, all right, we're gonna go get coffee or we're gonna crochet. What do you want to do? Anything so that you're not focusing on what's going on right now?

Amy Donathan: So it's you know, what I'm hearing from you is is like have those people and don't be afraid to not use them in a bad way but but to let them come into your life and and help you. And and that's and then like in return you do the same. because those times don't always stay. So like you are in a time, you know, like a depressive time, so you have somebody you can call and then you get out of it and then they can call you.

Alli Sargent: Rely on them. Mm-hmm. Yeah. As Mm. I was having this conversation with with one of the women in the group the other day. It's like what is the point of a community like that if you don't if it's not a give and take? Then you're just then you're just people on a chessboard. That don't don't don't do anything. Yeah, superficial and yeah, then you're just then you're just bystanders in each other's lives. You're not ⁓ reactants. Like you're not doing anything for those people.

Amy Donathan: It's very superficial. Yeah. That's why God made community. ⁓

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: So as we wrap up, like what are some things that you want the women listening to know? you know, about your identity or ⁓ that she may not be a real Christian because of what is going on inside of her head. And then even to the woman who hasn't come to faith yet, but is watching and listening and like

Alli Sargent: ⁓

Amy Donathan: What do you what do you want them to know?

Alli Sargent: So If you are listening and you're like, well, my anxiety is just my identity. I'm sorry. I'm I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm not gonna hold your hand while I say it, but no, it's not. because if you're a Christian, if you are saved, truly saved, if you made that decision of your own accord, then your identity is in Christ. That's it. You're just deal like I said earlier, it's the spice of life. You know, it gives you some extra struggles. ⁓ but we don't get struggles just to get struggles. We usually get strugg we get struggles to get stronger and to help people in their struggles later on. so it's not your identity and ⁓ one thing my husband and I if when we're going through it is we'll Like if I come to him and I'm like, I'm just terrible, like I'm a terrible wife, I'm gonna be a terrible mom, all of that, like my anxieties are so bad, he'll look at me and say, Like, all right, if one of our friends, if Jade came up to you and said that, what would you tell her? And so, like, if you can tell someone else that it's not your identity, then y those are things you need to hear yourself too. ⁓ it's not your identity. It it's so easy to make it your identity, but There's so much more to people than just what they deal with. And so you do yourself a disservice by saying my identity is anxiety.

Amy Donathan: Absolutely.

Alli Sargent: ⁓ you're sp you're spitting on God's creation, which is you, by saying, No, this is just my identity. ⁓ If you're listening and you're in church and you feel like you can't be a real Christian because of what goes on in your head, that is Satan and bad religious doctrine. We are we are coming out of an age where and again, it's not it's not a whole generation, but there was a couple generations before us that you just didn't talk about it. Don't talk about it. Pray it away. And that's so They didn't know better. And now we're learning. They're like, ooh, maybe, you know, maybe we actually do need to take care of our mental health. This might actually be just as important because your anxiety has physic anxiety and depression have physical symptoms. They can physically affect you. ⁓ And so we're slowly learning that like not slowly, we've been in this for a little while. Like this is actually really important. So the

Amy Donathan: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Alli Sargent: If some if you have a pastor or someone in church telling you just pray it away or you might not be a Christian if you you don't have enough faith because you can't their doctrine is wrong. It's not you, it is their doctrine, it's not even them, it's the things they've been taught. Because to say that is to look at Elijah and say, Well, he just wasn't faithful. When he poured water on his altar, he's like, Pour more water on. That's not that's so much faith, and you can have that faith too, and have anxiety and depression. We are we are saved, our soul is sanctified, but we still have a broken body, like I talked about earlier. So it's not your lack of faith. It is simply the world we live in, and you have to rely on God to get out of it.

Amy Donathan: Absolutely. It would be nice that at salvation sanctification would be finished also then. But that is not and to me that would be a really good idea, but it is not the best idea because that is not what happens.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Right.

Amy Donathan: So that means that that God has a purpose in teaching us through all of this. And that is something else I have to keep in mind when I'm going through it. I'm like, Lord, I can see like five different ways that that this this could have been different. And you could have taught me and and he pretty much tells me, Amy, if that's the way you would have learned it, that's how I would have done it. Because he gives us exactly what we need, even when we don't like it. And and

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: You're a mom because you're pregnant, but when your little one wants to do things and you have to be the bad guy and tell them no, like, you know, playing in the road, eating chocolate cake for breakfast every morning, you do it because you love them, even though they think it's horrible. I remember grounding you from just running across the street to the Keener's house because you wouldn't look and you thought I was a horrible, horrible mom.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: But I saw a bigger picture than you did and even though what I did the decision I made for you was bad in in your eyes, it was the best decision. And so it's, you know, just just knowing those things that God is a way better father than than we can ever be parents. And so He doesn't ever give us things just because.

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm. Right.

Amy Donathan: And and it's always used. I love what you said about and I can't because I have lived with this, I can help other people also. Because that is exactly why well, not for everything that's not why he does it, but that is a lot of why he does it. So we can help each other.

Alli Sargent: And if you're listening to and you're not saved.

Amy Donathan: ⁓

Alli Sargent: ⁓ first of all, I've been on both I've sat on both sides of that aisle. I've been in the anxiety and not saved. I've been in the anxiety and been saved. First of all, salvation is the only way to eternal life, but as you've seen, it's not, you know, it's not gonna take out all of our anxieties and depressions. Christians are some of the messiest people I have ever met, and I mean that in the like sweetest way possible. But we are. We're messy people and I think if you see Chris like, you know, it's so easy to see Christians like ⁓ they have it all together. We don't. ⁓ we don't come hang out at my house. It's a mess. I'm a mess. My husband's a mess. But we have a higher we have faith in something so much bigger than us, so that, you know, things things are gonna happen in life. They are, you know. ⁓ but we know that God

Amy Donathan: No.

Alli Sargent: is there for us. Yeah, it's I mean, if you're not saved and listening, you just heard my whole spiel on, you know, anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts, and a lot of those happened after I got saved. So we don't have it all together. We don't want you to think we have it all together because if we do, you know, then you put a roadblock on yourself of like, well, I have to get it all together first. before I come to Christ. That's just that's just not it. It's not gonna this

Amy Donathan: That's not that's not a possible outcome is to have it all together.

Alli Sargent: It's not a possible outcome 'cause that that roadblock is a never ending roadblock, 'cause there will always be something that you still have to get together. have a joy in the Lord that ⁓ surpasses all understand joy and peace that surpass all understanding. And we don't always feel that, we always have access to it after we get saved. And so even if you're a non Christian with anxiety and depression, you have to make that choice and then it will be yours.

Amy Donathan: Yes. Yes, and then that opens up that just a door to an abundant life. Even with issues, it's an abundant life. And so it's it's just remembering that. And and Allie, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for coming on. ⁓ I just remember when you called me a couple weeks ago and said, I want to tell my story about this. And

Alli Sargent: Mm-hmm.

Amy Donathan: And it was a brave thing to do 'cause it's not a pretty story. But it is a true story. And so thank you for having the courage to come on and tell your story to ⁓ bring to light probably what a lot of people are feeling that are going through this, especially being saved. That you know, if my faith was bigger, if I just prayed more, or you know, if I hadn't disappointed God so much, He would take this away. And if He hasn't, then that means that there's a purpose for it. And that He's not going to just say, here's a little anxiety, here's a little depression. Good luck. I'll see you on the other side. He's like, okay, you know what? We're gonna walk through this and here's how I'm going to use it all. And you may not see it right away, especially right in the midst of it. You don't see it, but afterwards, you're like, I can speak to that. I know that this person just needs me to come sit with them and not try to fix it. Just sit. And so thank you so much for for coming on for telling us your story and for trusting me with your with your story. And so to everyone listening, ⁓ if this if Allie's story sounds like your story, if anxiety is taking over and depression is keeping you in bed or just you know smiling and going through Going through the motions but not having any feelings behind it. Or, you know, as Allison described, that that wet blanket that's just over you all the time. And so you can still do things, but it's just there's nothing behind it. There's no no emotion, no feeling. ⁓ it does not make you a bad Christian. It doesn't make you weak. It doesn't mean that you're beyond help. It just means that you are human and this is what you're battling, and everybody after being a therapist for over a decade. I know everybody battles something. I battle things, Allie battles things, my husband battles things. ⁓ we all have battles, but we are allowed to get help. And don't be the man on the roof waiting for God to take over when when he sends you people in your life. It's okay. Pray, give it to him and say, show me where I need to go. And sometimes that means therapy, sometimes that means medication, sometimes It means calling that nine eight eight crisis number. It means not being afraid to let somebody in to see you. Your husband, your friend, your parents, your pastor, a doctor. Getting ha help is not failure of faith. It's faith in action. It's giving it to God and saying, Show me where to go and trusting that He's gonna do it. That is faith. That's not weakness. That is faith of giving it to somebody who can help you get there. ⁓ secondly to to the moms and the friends who see their kids or their friends going through this fight, it feels helpless. I felt so helpless that I could not help my daughter. I tried, but I was not the person. And and it's no that's okay. It doesn't make you a bad mom. It doesn't make you a bad friend. Just stay and and hopefully with Allie, like I stayed, I never left. I never I hope she she knows that I was ⁓ I was always there. Always there, always praying, always there. But sometimes, you know, especially for for teenagers, like your mom is not the person that you want to talk to because sometimes teenagers don't think their moms know anything. But it feels helpless ⁓ and you can't fix it for them. But stay, learn, ask the question. And I remember going into Allie's room sometimes, and I didn't do this perfectly, but but I would ask her, Do you want to vent about it? Or do you want me just to so and a sauce sit and listen? Or do you want my opinion? Do remember me asking the asking you that question? And sometimes sometimes she just needed to vent. She didn't want my opinion. And we have to be okay with that. that they just want us they just want to be able to vent to us and and us not try to fix it and s and it's so hard as a mom and a therapist not to try to fix it. And so, Allie, I am sorry for the times that I tried to fix it. When that's not what you mean. ⁓

Alli Sargent: Mm.

Amy Donathan: So just tell them things like I'm here. Let's figure out what what help looks like for you. And for Ali it was therapy. And not so much the medication, but therapy. And for you, for people listening, it may be therapy and medication. Or maybe you just need to get out of the house and take a walk in nature. ⁓ But don't not go get help because you think it's gonna make you a weak Christian. So tell somebody this week. If you are in this place, tell somebody this week. One person, not everybody, not everybody needs to know all your business. But tell one person, I'm not okay and I need some support. That one person. And if you are supporting somebody in this battle, instead of asking, How are you? Tell them, hey, I've been thinking about you. How are you really doing? What can I do to help? Do I need to bring you a coffee? Can I just come sit with you? ⁓ Psalm 34 18 says, The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. So even If you don't have that friend or you have that community, you always have God. He is always there. He walks through us through so many things with us. So don't Don't think that you are alone in this, you are not alone. Even if you feel alone, it doesn't mean that you are alone. Our feelings are very ⁓ subjective and sometimes what we feel isn't really the truth. It's not really based in facts. And so We can think that God is not there because we don't feel it, but it doesn't mean that he's not. Because in his word it says he is always there. There is no place that we can go away from him. He is always there. And so even if we don't feel him there, he's still there. So look to that. Call a friend. If you are supporting somebody, just ask how you can support them, what they need from you. Not what you think they need, but what they need from you. So the next episode that we're gonna do is gonna go deeper and we're gonna talk about substance addiction and how sometimes we get caught up in that because we have pain and that is how we're we're trying to get through the pain. And so if if that is you or if you know somebody, ⁓ stay tuned for the next episode. ⁓ this is a hard series. right now of of mental health and struggles because it's a lot of times things that we don't talk about. But we need to. We need to get it out there. And we need I need you to know that God does not see you in a bad way. He is not disappointed in you because you deal with mental health or you deal with a substance abuse or you deal with other things. That is not what he's looking at. He's looking at a masterpiece. He made you. You are his masterpiece. That's what he sees. All the other stuff is just the stuff that we need to get rid of. And so stay tuned next week for the substance addiction episode. And ⁓ again, if you are here and this is you, please reach out to somebody. I'm gonna pray and then I'm gonna let Allah go. Dear Jesus, I thank you for today. I thank you for Allie's bravery in coming here. I thank you for putting that in her head that she wants to share. I thank you for her willingness to share her story to help others and just that heart of hers that you put in her a long time ago just to be a help. And not not so much a people pleaser, but just the compassion to see a need and want to help. And so Lord, I thank you so much for that. And I thank you for the honor and privilege it is to be her mom. And to have a close relationship with her. And Lord, I thank you so much for that. And for this new baby she's bringing into the world. I thank you for him and pray blessings on him. And Lord, I pray for the women that are listening that this is their story too. That Allie's story is their story. And so I pray that they find the courage to get therapy or to talk to their doctor about medication or to tell a friend. I pray for the women who are the friend. I pray that you give them your words and not their own. I pray that you help them to really see their friends who are struggling and really not be afraid to step into their mess and to be that friend. And I just pray for the women who don't know you. I pray that through this they see how you walk alongside Allie through all of this, how her faith does not take away her anxiety. But helps her deal with it. It helps her see it in a different light to where it is not overwhelming to her. It is something that she deals with and not who she is, that she knows that she is yours. And in that she is better able to deal with her anxiety and depression because she knows that you are there with her. I thank you for her husband who who walks alongside her and has been such a help. And I just pray blessings on their marriage. And I just thank you so much for all that you have done, Lord. And I pray excitedly and expectantly to see what you're going to do. And I pray these things in your name. Amen. Allie, have a great rest of your day. And for everybody else, I will talk to you next week. Bye.

Alli Sargent: Thank you. Do you too?